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AL88GPX
25-06-14, 03:58 PM
Hi Everyone

AL88GPX saying hello to all , from Newcastle NSW, had lots of bikes over the years this is my first Kwaka, have a project bike to play with now,a 1988 GPX750R F2. 3rd owner from new , hoping to deal with overflowing number two carbie this weekend and a faulty fuel tap that caused it.

Ride safe !!


Al

chimp1
25-06-14, 05:02 PM
G'day Alan & welcome....now entry to this place is dealt in Picdollars....so put up some pics to the value of 10 picdollars & all will be good in the world tonight:rollseyes:

AL88GPX
25-06-14, 06:11 PM
Hi Peter

Thanks for the welcome but unfortunately I cannot earn any pic dollars at present. I have only had her a bit over 2 weeks and she developed the fuel leak soon after I got her so I have stripped her down , tank and fairings removed ready to remove the carbies this weekend , hopefully a simple fix , but who knows?
I have since found the previous owner had blanked off the vacuum tube that runs from the fuel tap to number one cylinder, I think he did that because of the faulty fuel tap but the blanked off hose had a big split in it so , no vacuum shut off, hopefully this is what caused the carbie overflow and fill number 2 cylinder with fuel, will soon know once I get the carbies on a level bench and gravity feed some fuel to them.

Ohh it's all fun isn't it !!!

Thanks again and pic's will go up as soon as she is back together and running again.

Ride safe
Al

Davo
25-06-14, 07:22 PM
Welcome to the forum Al......good luck with your fuel problem mate

AL88GPX
25-06-14, 07:45 PM
Thanks for that Dave

From the looks of it, if I strike problem there will be advice here that will help me out of trouble, so patience and enjoying the time in the shed away from work is all good.

Thanks again for the welcome.

Al

Doctor Shifty
25-06-14, 09:22 PM
Hi Alan, welcome to the forum. The Newcastle population is expanding pretty rapidly around here.

chimp1
25-06-14, 09:24 PM
It's ok Alan we also love naked pic's :top:


Hi Peter

Thanks for the welcome but unfortunately I cannot earn any pic dollars at present. I have only had her a bit over 2 weeks and she developed the fuel leak soon after I got her so I have stripped her down , tank and fairings removed ready to remove the carbies this weekend , hopefully a simple fix , but who knows?
I have since found the previous owner had blanked off the vacuum tube that runs from the fuel tap to number one cylinder, I think he did that because of the faulty fuel tap but the blanked off hose had a big split in it so , no vacuum shut off, hopefully this is what caused the carbie overflow and fill number 2 cylinder with fuel, will soon know once I get the carbies on a level bench and gravity feed some fuel to them.

Ohh it's all fun isn't it !!!

Thanks again and pic's will go up as soon as she is back together and running again.

Ride safe
Al

madcow
25-06-14, 09:32 PM
welcome aboard alan, hope you find all the help you need..

TurboStew
25-06-14, 10:24 PM
Hi Alan/Al and welcome, good luck with the carbs. post your progress. We are all interested to see how it goes.

Cheers Stew.

gpzman.123
26-06-14, 09:11 AM
Hi alan and welcome from another lad from Newcastle. I had a GPZ1000RX which is the bigger brother to your bike. I had the same problem with the fuel tap. I found when I pulled it apart the previous owner had left out (or lost ) the spring that was meant to keep pressure on the diaphragm. I went to the wreckers and got another tap and got a rebuild kit from Kawasaki Newcastle. After all that my problems were gone. They were available a few years ago but don't know about now. I think still available on ebay for about $25 to $30

SLOWPOKE
26-06-14, 09:43 AM
Welcome to the forum Alan. Like to see a few pics of the bike when you can.

Senetor17
26-06-14, 04:46 PM
Welcome Alan, lots of good help here. We do need pics. Some post up pics of the progress of their projects, there are plenty of followers interested in seeing the progress.

cokeholic
26-06-14, 10:05 PM
Gday Alan and welcome to the nut house a beer and bean bag will get ya comfy

AL88GPX
28-06-14, 01:07 PM
Hi Everyone and thanks for the welcome,

Steve , thanks for sharing your experience with the GPZ ,as you suspected I have the same problem , fuel tap has no diaphragm spring to keep pressure on the diaphragm to keep it closed. Kawasaki no longer have the tap repair kits so I purchased a new diaphragm [the only spare they still do] , I was hoping to go all O.E.M. but will now have to get a spring and 'o' rings from 'Touratech' in the UK.
Some where in it's past the vacuum hoses have been removed I think , the vacuum outlet from the tank has nothing connected to it. Number 1 cylinder has a short 50cm piece of hose attached to the vacuum stem which has been blanked off with a washer and a screw screwed in to the end of the hose [ wasn't sealed anyway the hose was split]. Numbers 2,3 and 4 cylinders just have a cap fitted over the vacuum stem. The workshop manual I have doesn't actually show the vacuum hoses and their proper positions. Do you know if the vacuum from the tank just goes straight to number one cylinder or does it kind of manifold to all 4 cylinders. Can't seem to find anything on the internet. Any advice would be great.

Thanks again everyone for the welcomes !!!

Al

Doctor Shifty
28-06-14, 03:06 PM
Hi Al,

most auto taps only have a vacuum line to one carby. You can leave the blanking caps as they are.

My previous bike was a 1981 Suzie GS1000 - complete with auto tap that gave me trouble every now and then. They can be a bit of a pain when they age. I fixed mine by 'relining' the diaphragm with silastic to stop it from leaking along the cracks it developed. However, the biggest problem I had was operator error, I kept on forgetting which way the handle went for prime/on/off etc when I was working on the bike and had to turn it off.

gpzman.123
28-06-14, 03:30 PM
Alan I don't have the bike anymore to refer back to so I am only going on memory now. My tank had a vacuum line on it but it was never connected to anything either. That was used in the US for pollution purposes. I think what Kim said above is correct. The vacuum line from the tap only goes to one carb. The rest should have caps on them. I do remember that there was a way to make the tap manually operate and not need the vacuum line but I cant remember how to do it now. I looked at the Tourmax kits but I don't think they come with a spring. Only the diaphragm and three seals. I will search thru my boxes of bits because I think I had a few of those vacuum taps. If I find them you can have them as I don't have the bike any more. You have to watch the fuel taps on these bikes as they were prone to leak fuel into the cylinders and cause bent conrods when you try to start the bike.

AL88GPX
28-06-14, 03:40 PM
Hi Kim

Thanks for the info , I have had a lot of bikes over the years , both old and new , this is the first old one I have had with a vacuum tap , so the advice is appreciated .The tap itself is in pretty good nick , I have a new diaphragm purchased from Kawasaki Newcastle and I have 4mm 'o' rings but the spring was missing and is now discontinued , however about 1/2 an hour ago I found a site that had actual size photos of the tap components so I now know I need to find a spring 17x9mm , shouldn't be to hard , I can then try it before I pull the carbies off etc. The previous owner said he had them rebuilt about 6 months ago so there shouldn't be a problem with float levels etc and he has been riding it since so hopefully the excess fuel supplied to number two was just a consequence of the tap.

Thanks again

Al

AL88GPX
28-06-14, 03:50 PM
G'day again Steve
Appreciate that offer of the parts if you can find them , awesome. I am hoping nothing is bent as I was outside and didn't smell the fuel and when I hit the starter button got two bangs , hydraulic lockup !!, removed the tank and plugs and cranked it and even with a towel over all 4 pots I still got a shower of fuel. Still seem to have plenty of compression on all 4 pots and it turns freely , so hopefully all is ok.
This is my schedule at this stage
1 Fix fuel tap
2 Change oil and filter
3 Crank engine without plugs in to get some oil up
4 Everything back together leave it stand for a day or so , check if no fuel leaks, try the starter

All the best , thanks again.

Al

AL88GPX
28-06-14, 04:06 PM
23170

Not the best photo , sunshine has made yellow patterns but it is all red , black and white, snapped the day I got her.

Really fairly tidy for it's age , done 50k , two previous owners , plan to get it running properly and the start on the plastics and other paint work tidy up.

gpzman.123
28-06-14, 04:34 PM
Alan the bike looks good. That bang you spoke of doesn't sound good. These bikes are notorious for hydrolock and I have seen the results of it and its not pretty. I have seen holes the size of 10 cent coins in the top of pistons from it. I have a GTR1000 that is prone to the same thing so when I got it I put a kit in the fuel tap. I have been to the shed and found 1 vacuum tap from my GPZ1000 RX. It is the tap that was on my bike with no spring in it. I went to the wreckers and got another tap with a spring and rebuilt that one. The one I have might be good for parts. It has still got the filter over the pipe where the fuel enters. My GTR has a vacuum tap but bolts on differently to this one.

AL88GPX
28-06-14, 04:45 PM
Thanks for looking Steve , I will try the wreckers first, then if I get stuck I know how to contact you now , as for the 2x bangs , hopefully all is ok still seem to still have plenty of compression on all four. See how we go.

Ride safe!!

Al

zxrmad
29-06-14, 09:28 AM
G'day Al and welcome to the forum. I bought an '89 GPX750 brand new and thought it was a great bike.

In my opinion, the fuel tap isn't the cause for the flooded cylinder. I'd say either the needle and seat is bypassing or was stuck open. Give the carb a couple good smacks and the float may close. If it were me, i'd fix the cause of flooded cylinder before i changed the oil and filter in case you contaminate a sump full of new oil. Had the bike sat for long before you bought it?

zxrmad
29-06-14, 09:30 AM
I doubt if anything is bent as it would have been turning fairly slowly when it hydrauliced.

AL88GPX
29-06-14, 02:38 PM
Hi Brian

Thanks for the advice and the welcome , appreciate that. As mentioned the previous owner used this fairly regularly and said he had the carbies rebuilt 6 months ago , all new 'o' rings seals etc so I was hoping that wouldn't be the problem , apparently they are a real pain to remove and re-install. I am not a mechanic but I initially thought that once the carbie had enough fuel the float would have risen and needle and seat would shut off the fuel supply from the tank , but I don't know anything about the vacuum system on this bike.
He says it was ridden quite often and he actually rode the bike down 130 k's for me to inspect so I don't imagine it is a pre-existing problem as a matter of fact he said the bike was garaged indoors on an enclosed verandah.
Definitely will fix the fuel tap first with the new oem diaphragm I have and the Tourtech kit with the spring and 'o' rings I am waiting for from the U.K. I will then give the carbie a bit of a whack a few times in case something is stuck , if no leaks then I will change the oil and filter then and try to fire her up.

Thanks again.

Al

Doctor Shifty
29-06-14, 09:03 PM
Hi Alan,

if you find a spring the right size, remember that the compression is also important. Not much use having one that is too rigid for the vacuum line to pull against it.

On the old Suzukis there were two types of auto taps. One had a screw-driver slot and two positions, so it was not user friendly. The other had a spigot and three positions, off/auto/prime, so it was the best one to have. Depending on the bolt hole position into the tank, any other brand of tap will work if it fits.

AL88GPX
30-06-14, 07:44 AM
Hi Kim

Thanks for that , I have found an after market repair kit in the U.K. made by Tourmax, claims they are Japanese made , direct replacement. Kit includes the tank gasket and 2x nylon washers , diaphragm and 2x 4mm 'O' rings and the all important spring. After putting it all back together I am thinking I will reconnect the vacuum tube using clear pvc tubing as the hose temporarily for the present to keep an eye on it, make sure no fuel bypasses the diaphragm and drips straight in to number one pot. The clear tubing I have is quite rigid so will not collapse when the vaccum is applied, just have to shield it a bit from engine heat. If all works I will put a proper vacuum hose on after a bit of testing.,

Thanks again

Al:ciao:

zxrmad
30-06-14, 10:55 AM
No worries Al. If the vacuum line was originally connected then i would say the dodgy fuel tap is a possibility for the flooded cylinder, but since you said earler that the vacuum line was disconnected by the previous owner, the tap is not your problem. If the carbs were rebuilt (presumably properly) recently, then all other seal etc should be good. The only way fuel can flood the cylinder is via the needle and seat. Most bikes that have a standard (non-vacuum) tap are usually left with the tap open anyway and rely on the float valve (needle and seat) to hold the fuel in the carbs.

Check that the bike has a fuel filter in line also. If not, there may be a bit of cr@p got through into the float valve.

AL88GPX
30-06-14, 12:41 PM
Hi Brian , thanks for that , since posting the last message I managed to get the previous owner on the phone for a while, senior gentleman like myself who has mucked about with bikes for years, carbies were rebuilt by him and a friend who is a car mechanic , new seals, gaskets , needles and seats etc , float levels all reset and balanced, new plugs, fitted a new inline fuel filter, since that was done he had done about 1500k's with no dramas. He finds it hard to believe their is any rubbish in there as he was so meticulous , all blown out with air , cleaned and reassembled with the new bits and since then done the 1500 k's , the only other thing I can think of and it has happened to me years ago is maybe the float is not sitting dead centre and snagging on something, there doesn't seem to be anything else I can do so it looks like the carbies are coming off this weekend for a look.
The fuel filter he fitted has a transparent casing can't see any rubbish has been caught up in there either.

All the best.

Al

zxrmad
30-06-14, 05:43 PM
Before you pull the carbs out (as you say, **** of a job), give the carb a good smack to see if that fixes the problem. Or, if you can get to it and remove the bowl in situ, give the float a wiggle.

Doctor Shifty
30-06-14, 08:58 PM
The common problem with getting the carbies off these old motors was the lack of space for the boots/carbies/still-air-box in the frame. You will find it easier to do the following:

1. Remove fuel tank and sometimes the seat as well.
2. Loosen the clamps and slide them away from the channels they sit in.
3. Spray the boots with WD40 or household soapy cleaner stuff. You need the inner surfaces well lubricated.
4. Sit on the bike, feet on the pegs, and wiggle the whole carby assembly from above until the boots start to slide a little. It's much easier doing this on the bike than beside it.
5. From there it should be no trouble to lift everything out.
6. When assembling, make sure the boots are well lubricated again. Getting them all seating together is a skill that we all had to learn back in the 80s! :)

AL88GPX
01-07-14, 10:15 AM
Thanks for that Kim , I will get them off this weekend to have a look. I started yesterday , tank is off , seat is off , clamps are totally loosened and out of the way,coils are pulled back out of the way ,I never would have thought to actually sit in the bike to wiggle them out though.

By the way anyone looking for parts for these older bikes and you cannot get the O.E.M. bits from your Kawasaki dealer because they are said to be discontinued , it may just be that Kawasaki Australia doesn't import them anymore but they are still available. If you are told your part , for example my diaphragm spring is discontinued , get the original Kawasaki part number from the dealer and then get on to Mototech's website in Melbourne and do a parts search using the original Kawasaki part number. I purchased 2 x springs {1 spare} and 2x 'o' rings for $22.50 delivered.

Thanks
Al

gpzman.123
01-07-14, 05:03 PM
It doesn't hurt to ask the Kawasaki dealer to look to see if parts are available. You might be surprised what is still in japan. When I had my 1000RX I had to pull the carbs off to set the float levels. The rubber boots from the carbs to the air box were as hard as rock. I went to Kawasaki and asked them. They searched the part number in their computer and told me they were available but were in Japan. They said they could get them because the computer showed there was 96 in stock. They placed the order and 5 days later they were at the shop to be picked up.

AL88GPX
01-07-14, 05:23 PM
Hi Steve

Yes I would always prefer to use OEM, next time I am told that a part that I need is discontinued I will take your advice and ask them to do a search instead of just relying on the Kawasaki computer parts listing showing them that the part I need is discontinued.

Thanks for the advice.

Al

AL88GPX
05-07-14, 04:45 PM
Hi everyone

Well, today the carbies came off after being well lubricated with WD40. I cut two pieces of colour bond about 450x150mm and slid one lubricated piece between the air ducts and the air box. I then sat on the bike as per Kim's suggestion and basically just lifted and wiggled them out on the left hand side. Number two carbie was the one leaking , what I found was that the spring that sits over the needle and seat which in turn is connected to the float was not installed correctly ,it was different to the other three carbies. I reinstalled the spring properly after cleaning everything I could see then I connected a temporary fuel supply to the intake and kept filling until they would take no more and I had 'no leaks' all of the needles and seats had closed completely. Reinstalling the carbies was a reverse of the removal just forced them in to place between the two sheets of lubricated colour bond , I then slowly removed the colour bond and the intakes popped in to place one at a time. I had a lot of trouble getting a seal on the air box side of the carbies though as the ducts are old so it looks like I will be buying some new air ducts.
Waiting for the new fuel tank tap kit now and then fit that, change the oil and filter, crank it a few times to pump up some fresh oil to the bearings etc, fit the spark plugs and tank and see if she starts.

Thanks everyone for your help !!!!!:rock:

Al

Doctor Shifty
05-07-14, 08:11 PM
Everyone loves a story with a happy ending!!

TurboStew
05-07-14, 08:56 PM
Good job AI, Yeah If that little clip on the needle is in the wrong position is can fowl and can apply a small side load on the needle and she will not seat properly. and she can flood. Its always good to find something that is the cause of the fault.

Cheers Stew.

AL88GPX
29-07-14, 04:37 PM
Hi Everyone.
An update on how it is all going, and the update is ' it is going awesome '. I reset the float level on number 2 carbie , was 5mm or so to high , hence the overflow and subsequent hydraulic lock up. The other 3 were fine.
I purchased an after market manual fuel tap (on, off, reserve with nylon mesh filter and 6mm hose size) and made it fit to hopefully stop this happening again.
I also purchased 4 x new air ducts from Kawasaki , expensive but worth it.
Installed new oil and filter , put carbies back on , new premium fuel then punched the starter , 3rd push she started , oh how awesome !!!
Purrs like a kitten and revs freely all the way through the rev range, did 100 klm's today , excellent !!
Thanks to everyone who had advice and input to help me through , this is one of the reasons we ride , motorcycling has a good community!!
Thanks again , Al

gpzman.123
30-07-14, 07:47 AM
Great to hear you are back on the road Alan. I will keep an eye out for you around town when I am out riding.

AL88GPX
30-07-14, 08:26 AM
23291

Thanks Steve , looking forward to saying hello !!

zxrmad
30-07-14, 10:04 PM
Glad you got it sorted Al